The woes of a crippled, female undertaker:
For the past 3 years, I've dedicated my life to a career that has yet to accept women, and persons with disabilities on a grand scale. That is not to say that ladies and the disabled can never find work in this field, but it's certainly more difficult, due to the nature and expectations of the job, and the fact that most businesses are small and family owned. Personally, I like to blame it on the old man dinosaurs that dominate the industry.
The first job I had in this field was at a small, family owned business. Looking back, remembering the eyes of doubt when I walked into the interview, I'm sure I was hired on a combination of desperation for help, and pity. I was even told that no matter where I went afterwards I would have to work very hard to prove myself, as most businesses of this nature don't exactly love to hire skinny women. While I appreciated the honesty, It's really left a cloud of inadequacy looming over my head ever since. I put my whole self into it, and proved that I am not only an excellent worker, but I'm very good at what I do. I also became good friends with my boss, which eventually got me my second job...
My second job was at a large, busy, corporately owned funeral home. I was practically handed the job, but when they found out I had a permanent physical disability they tried to let me go before I even started. I fought my way in, and turned out to be one of the best workers there, in spite of having a vagina, being thin, and having metal rods in my back. I also surprised myself and others in the amount of weight I could move around for my size. I've received countless compliments on my work by both coworkers and the families we serve. Despite this, I also still receive lots of criticism for not being able to lift as much as the men, and am subject to snide remarks and the evil eye if I'm having a bad day and am just unable to lift anything due to back pain (which happens surprisingly infrequently, say, 2 days a month).
Here's my dilemma. In 3 months, I am eligible to take my exam for both my funeral director and embalming licenses. At that point, my contract at my current job ends. I am being encouraged by management to find another job, saying there are no positions available for me after my contract is up. However, it's obvious to me, and my coworkers that there will be at least 2 positions available when my contract is finished.
The lower half of the management knows that I am one of the best workers they have, but the upper half, who obviously call the shots, are less willing to budge. That being said, I do plan on talking with the owner, and reapplying, because they know as well as i do that finding good employees in this industry is impossible at best. They keep trying to hire young men, which for the most part disappoint them due to poor work ethic, entitlement issues and overall laziness. But it doesn't seem to change the fact that they seem like they would rather replace me with a succession of about a dozen tough looking lazy 20-something year old dudes who have no interest or dedication to the work we do. They've even gone as far as approaching random guys in various customer service roles, offering them a salary, and offering to pay for them to go to school so they could have them to work with. It's flopped every time.
I'm starting to become disillusioned. If the company I work for knows how great I am at my job and won't renew my contract, how will I ever convince anyone else that I'm worthy of a job despite my obvious setbacks? There's also the problem that NOWHERE in Canada is hiring. A couple places in Toronto are hiring, but alas, my license is not transferable to Ontario. I was already rejected by a place in Calgary because my experience was one year short of what they wanted. Things may open up in the next couple months, but so far the job possibilities are an absolute zero. It's a difficult industry to get back into if you leave, so I don't really want to do something else for a couple years while I wait for a new job to open up, but I'm really not horny over relocating to the other side of the country either. I really need some advice!
Maybe it's only logical to accept what we can easily see -- in this case, that you're a frail-looking, disabled woman -- but it seems silly that we'll let what we can see speak to us so loudly regardless of what we can know -- in this case, that you're a dedicated, hard-working and competent employee. Here's something that fills me with rage: why is it that the people who know better are often not wont to speak up when something not fair is going on? Your lower-level managers can vouch for you, so why the Hell don't they? This isn't the damn industrial revolution. Nobody's going to get a belt lash.
Anyway, forgive a cliche, but while you can't judge a book by its cover, it doesn't change the fact that few people have time to sit down and read. While we all can agree (maybe for appearance's sake) that appearances can be deceiving, it's an unspoken fact that appearances are important, and especially at work. Dress... hair-colour... last I checked you actually can't even work at Starbucks if you've got a certain amount of metal in your face. We can say it's not fair on some level, but what are many of us going to do about it, if employers are private businesses and criteria for employment is ultimately -- and at times arbitrarily -- determined by them?
In your case, it depends on what you can do with this phrase, courtesy of the Canadian Human Rights Commission: “Duty to Accommodate.” I'm not a lawyer or even all that knowledgeable in the field of human rights -- my sense of right and wrong is mostly intuitive -- so my understanding of the term is only so complete.
But, if you were hired by a company, and they knowingly entertained your employment while you had a pre-existing condition, and they can demonstrate no proof that it made you particularly bad at your job, there is a good chance said company cannot let your disability be a factor in whether your contract is renewed, or whether you should be considered for another, future position with them.
Maybe your employer is aware of this, and maybe that's why they're telling you there will just be no work, but if it turns out there actually will be work, well, geez. They probably kind of have to prove any reasons they'd have for not keeping you around, even if your contract is up.
That is, if you took action. Maybe it would be as simple as pointing it out to them that you know this stuff, in the event you re-applied and they did something as stupid as hire somebody else for a job you could perform. But just in case they're not eager to be decent human damn beings... because I suspect you do not belong to a union, and because it sounds like you work for a bigger chain and those tend to have pretty good lawyers, the previously mentioned Canadian Human Rights Commission would be your best bet for help. And even if you don't choose to make a big deal over your current situation (which I would understand, though the idealist in me hopes you would try what you could), or if the whole thing unfolds in a way that makes it impossible or unnecessary to act, it sounds like it would be a good idea for someone in your position to become familiar with your rights and your options in the likely event that you experience future discrimination in your field. So hit the CHRC up, starting with their overview on Duty to Accommodate.
Aside from that, and back to the often insurmountable issue of appearances, do you see a physical therapist? A personal trainer? How about a nutritionist? I understand that your condition would effect your ability to pump iron, and I don't doubt that you are more than cognizant of any limitations your back rods place on your body, and maybe I have way too much faith in treadmills, but I wonder what could be done (safely!) to make you appear more sturdy, at the very least? And, maybe even low-impact arm-beef-producing activity like yoga would have a nice side-effect of actually making you a little stronger and improving handy things like core balance (which reduces everybody's chances of shattering hips and tearing tendons and straining joints). It could even give you something to say to make you more attractive to prospective employers who would take issue with your disability, and you could back it up with the strides you've made so far in your career. “I'm in training, shithawks! Not only have I already exceeded everyone's expectations, my condition could improve! I'm trying to do something about my situation! That's dedication and being proactive, bitches! Suck it! YOUHAVE2HIREME.” Or perhaps something more diplomatic.
Showing posts with label gender relations. Show all posts
Showing posts with label gender relations. Show all posts
Wednesday, May 20, 2009
Friday, April 17, 2009
Flowers! Candy! Responsibilities!
In the last year or so, my wife has become very uninterested in sex. In the last six months we have had intercourse once and no additional play at all. I have tried both initiating and not initiating for a while and seeing if she would. I have been romantic, brought her flowers, made her dinner, bought great wine on valentines day and still nothing. When I try to initiate she either brushes it off as her being tired or "stop being silly, we have stuff to do". I am confident she loves me and is not being unfaithful, she is loving and attentive in every other aspect of our relationship.
I love her and I would never leave or be unfaithful but I am getting to the point where I almost want to stop trying to be sexual.
Thanks in advance.
No fair. Sorry to be unromantic, but: when you married this woman, I think she agreed to have regular sex with you for the rest of her natural life. Marriage is serious business and one thing we can lose sight of is the fact that she kind of owes you.
It's a little more complicated than that, of course. "No fair" will not change the fact that she doesn't seem to want to. Sex out of obligation is only attractive to a percentage of men and women. So:
Of the 142 words you've written here, “We have stuff to do,” speaks the most to me. At the risk of sounding like less the femme fatale you should all be assuming that I am: I have been where your wife now stands. And, at the risk of sounding like a generalization-making, self-loathing woman: a lot of us can't do sex when we feel like the rest of our world is in shambles. Does your wife have a stressful job? Is she fighting with family members? Do you have kids who wet the bed? Is the house a pig sty? Are you having money troubles? I'm pretty sure the recession is killing hornies all over the world right now, for example. If you can't identify any problems like these, maybe there's something on her mind that she's not telling you. Take stress and add secrets and you've got the perfect conditions for a nasty case of the frigidity.
I don't mean for you to become suspicious of her. A secret doesn't have to be sinister or sordid -- it could just be something embarrassing that has very little to do with you, for example.
What I do mean is for you to pay attention for the next little while to anything that could be getting her panties in a twist, in the bad way. Though it may sound somewhat unsexy, maybe instead of buying flowers and making dinner, you need to do the laundry or wash the dishes or do your taxes. Supplement any increased domestic-flavoured sensitivity with plenty of non-sexual affection, just so she understands that you're not putting pressure on her. Sometimes women remember how great sex is when it happens 'by mistake,' i.e., when they find themselves surprised to be wanting it.
If no room for improvement becomes apparent to you, strike up a conversation. Not, “why don't we have sex anymore?” Something more like, “is everything O.K., my sweet? Anything stressing you out?”
One of the few good habits I have is asking my loved ones every now and then, “so what's on your mind lately?” I do it regardless of whether I notice anything different about their mood or behaviour, because I'm really curious and I really enjoy talking and I'm especially curious about the fantastic people I've managed to surround myself with. I also know what can go on beyond the surface without anybody knowing. If you're married to this woman, you probably find her fascinating! Why not ask to hear all the weird things in her brain, whenever you want to, just because you can?
I love her and I would never leave or be unfaithful but I am getting to the point where I almost want to stop trying to be sexual.
Thanks in advance.
No fair. Sorry to be unromantic, but: when you married this woman, I think she agreed to have regular sex with you for the rest of her natural life. Marriage is serious business and one thing we can lose sight of is the fact that she kind of owes you.
It's a little more complicated than that, of course. "No fair" will not change the fact that she doesn't seem to want to. Sex out of obligation is only attractive to a percentage of men and women. So:
Of the 142 words you've written here, “We have stuff to do,” speaks the most to me. At the risk of sounding like less the femme fatale you should all be assuming that I am: I have been where your wife now stands. And, at the risk of sounding like a generalization-making, self-loathing woman: a lot of us can't do sex when we feel like the rest of our world is in shambles. Does your wife have a stressful job? Is she fighting with family members? Do you have kids who wet the bed? Is the house a pig sty? Are you having money troubles? I'm pretty sure the recession is killing hornies all over the world right now, for example. If you can't identify any problems like these, maybe there's something on her mind that she's not telling you. Take stress and add secrets and you've got the perfect conditions for a nasty case of the frigidity.
I don't mean for you to become suspicious of her. A secret doesn't have to be sinister or sordid -- it could just be something embarrassing that has very little to do with you, for example.
What I do mean is for you to pay attention for the next little while to anything that could be getting her panties in a twist, in the bad way. Though it may sound somewhat unsexy, maybe instead of buying flowers and making dinner, you need to do the laundry or wash the dishes or do your taxes. Supplement any increased domestic-flavoured sensitivity with plenty of non-sexual affection, just so she understands that you're not putting pressure on her. Sometimes women remember how great sex is when it happens 'by mistake,' i.e., when they find themselves surprised to be wanting it.
If no room for improvement becomes apparent to you, strike up a conversation. Not, “why don't we have sex anymore?” Something more like, “is everything O.K., my sweet? Anything stressing you out?”
One of the few good habits I have is asking my loved ones every now and then, “so what's on your mind lately?” I do it regardless of whether I notice anything different about their mood or behaviour, because I'm really curious and I really enjoy talking and I'm especially curious about the fantastic people I've managed to surround myself with. I also know what can go on beyond the surface without anybody knowing. If you're married to this woman, you probably find her fascinating! Why not ask to hear all the weird things in her brain, whenever you want to, just because you can?
Labels:
gender relations,
health,
mental health,
rejection,
relationships,
secrets,
sex,
what's fair
Monday, March 16, 2009
Queen of Pain
Dear M
My boyfriend is really confusing me! We started out as a secret casual sex thing, He d idn't want people to find out, so i wouldnt show him any special treatment when we met up in public, but he'd get mad at me when we saw each other alone later and acuse me of being mean to him and flirting with other guys. BEing scret wasn't workingm so i asked if we could have a normal boyfriend-girlfriend realtionship. that worked ok for about a month, then he semeed to loose interest, never calling me and not seeming like he wanted to have sex with me. Then he sugested we see each other, but see other people at the same time. So I did that and hooked up with some guys. That REALLY pissed him of. HE got supper jealous. I have been really attentive lately, and he seems to be ignoring me again. Either he's mad and jealous but paying attention to me, or bored and not paying attention to me.. What's going on??
I think you're pretty capable of knowing what's going on here, and what you should do: He can't be pleased, and you should dump him.
But I haven't written a column in several days, AND this one is late, so I'd better lay it all out here to the best of my ability, and colourfully:
When some people think of the words ‘sadist’ or ‘masochist,’ they think of whips and chains and hot wax, when that stuff can just as easily be associated with the words ‘fun,’ and, believe it or not, ‘healthy’; A lot of people with pain and/or humiliation kinks treat it like what it is, and they let their mates in on their fantasies, and it stays in the bedroom, or wherever they keep the cuffs – in other words, in their sexual lives. It’s a game, so they play it. No harm done.
Your boyfriend, on the other hand, is a sado-masochist in a less sexual sense of the word, living the shit 24/7 like a psycho, and likely loving every minute of it no matter what he would have you believe or even what he would acknowledge to himself.
Relevant?: my father once told me that you can tell a lot about a man (like, what he may be like as a mate) by the way he treats his mother, and this observation of his is scarily bang-on. Somewhat in the same vein, you would be surprised at the degree to which some men want to create with their partners something reminiscent of what they had with their Moms, regardless of whether they have good feelings about them or good relationships with them. Either they attempt a recreation of a good mother-son experience, or a correction of a bad mother-son experience. I hate pop psychology just as much as the next hipster, but it’s seriously uncanny, you guys.
I wouldn’t be surprised if this guy had a serious hate-boner for his mother. Maybe Mom abandoned him in some way. Maybe she left, maybe she cheated on Dad – kids can take it very personally and feel very betrayed when their parents leave or cheat. But, few sons can manage to hate their mothers completely, and the shadows of some very deep feelings manifest themselves in very strange romantic relationship behaviour. Maybe when he’s being cold and bitchy to you, he’s in fact reaming Mom for whatever she did to him. Regardless, somewhere along the line, this guy came to be turned off by things like security and fidelity and affection, and turned on by stuff like paranoia and jealousy and cruelty. Puke!
Regardless, I think he does want you to go out and make him jealous. People who are capable of being honest with themselves about having a similar type of desire identify as cuckhold fetishists. They get off on the idea of their mates getting off with others.
I’m not the most jealous gal, and I have to admit that my eye wanders – just because you’re on a diet doesn’t mean you can’t look at the menu – but cuckholding is definitely not my thing, and I think it’s a rare couple who isn’t just doing it to look unconditionally cool and can really work this arrangement without destroying each other most unsexily. However, as long as there are people out there who really like this, and manage to lead happy lives while putting it into practice, and can find other people who want to sleep around on them and don’t want to otherwise hurt or take advantage of them, and everybody takes measures to be safe, it’s fine with me.
This guy? Only feels alive when something sketchy and skanky is going on in his life, to make him jealous and to give him something to yell about to you, a.k.a. “New Mom” – all of this is why he looks disinterested now that you’re being good to him.
Here’s another twist: he would rather we all not acknowledge this. He doesn’t want the boom mic or the camera cables slipping into frame, he doesn’t want anybody to see the strings on the puppet, especially you, but mostly him. He likes that he can feel turned on by his jealousy and also feel justified in punishing you, which also turns him on. Your performance is way better for him if you don’t realize it’s all a game and you feel your hurt and confusion genuinely, because it can help him to forget that it’s all a game. It’s all a game that he is selfishly refusing to let you in on.
Either he has a hate-boner for his mother, or he’s watched and/or read more drama than he’s actually managed to live yet. Is he an artist?
In trying to apply this idiotic formula to his life, he is forcing it on your life. It’s a pretty weak formula, it works for him because he’s a pretty weak person, and you should dump him! Wheeee.
My boyfriend is really confusing me! We started out as a secret casual sex thing, He d idn't want people to find out, so i wouldnt show him any special treatment when we met up in public, but he'd get mad at me when we saw each other alone later and acuse me of being mean to him and flirting with other guys. BEing scret wasn't workingm so i asked if we could have a normal boyfriend-girlfriend realtionship. that worked ok for about a month, then he semeed to loose interest, never calling me and not seeming like he wanted to have sex with me. Then he sugested we see each other, but see other people at the same time. So I did that and hooked up with some guys. That REALLY pissed him of. HE got supper jealous. I have been really attentive lately, and he seems to be ignoring me again. Either he's mad and jealous but paying attention to me, or bored and not paying attention to me.. What's going on??
I think you're pretty capable of knowing what's going on here, and what you should do: He can't be pleased, and you should dump him.
But I haven't written a column in several days, AND this one is late, so I'd better lay it all out here to the best of my ability, and colourfully:
When some people think of the words ‘sadist’ or ‘masochist,’ they think of whips and chains and hot wax, when that stuff can just as easily be associated with the words ‘fun,’ and, believe it or not, ‘healthy’; A lot of people with pain and/or humiliation kinks treat it like what it is, and they let their mates in on their fantasies, and it stays in the bedroom, or wherever they keep the cuffs – in other words, in their sexual lives. It’s a game, so they play it. No harm done.
Your boyfriend, on the other hand, is a sado-masochist in a less sexual sense of the word, living the shit 24/7 like a psycho, and likely loving every minute of it no matter what he would have you believe or even what he would acknowledge to himself.
Relevant?: my father once told me that you can tell a lot about a man (like, what he may be like as a mate) by the way he treats his mother, and this observation of his is scarily bang-on. Somewhat in the same vein, you would be surprised at the degree to which some men want to create with their partners something reminiscent of what they had with their Moms, regardless of whether they have good feelings about them or good relationships with them. Either they attempt a recreation of a good mother-son experience, or a correction of a bad mother-son experience. I hate pop psychology just as much as the next hipster, but it’s seriously uncanny, you guys.
I wouldn’t be surprised if this guy had a serious hate-boner for his mother. Maybe Mom abandoned him in some way. Maybe she left, maybe she cheated on Dad – kids can take it very personally and feel very betrayed when their parents leave or cheat. But, few sons can manage to hate their mothers completely, and the shadows of some very deep feelings manifest themselves in very strange romantic relationship behaviour. Maybe when he’s being cold and bitchy to you, he’s in fact reaming Mom for whatever she did to him. Regardless, somewhere along the line, this guy came to be turned off by things like security and fidelity and affection, and turned on by stuff like paranoia and jealousy and cruelty. Puke!
Regardless, I think he does want you to go out and make him jealous. People who are capable of being honest with themselves about having a similar type of desire identify as cuckhold fetishists. They get off on the idea of their mates getting off with others.
I’m not the most jealous gal, and I have to admit that my eye wanders – just because you’re on a diet doesn’t mean you can’t look at the menu – but cuckholding is definitely not my thing, and I think it’s a rare couple who isn’t just doing it to look unconditionally cool and can really work this arrangement without destroying each other most unsexily. However, as long as there are people out there who really like this, and manage to lead happy lives while putting it into practice, and can find other people who want to sleep around on them and don’t want to otherwise hurt or take advantage of them, and everybody takes measures to be safe, it’s fine with me.
This guy? Only feels alive when something sketchy and skanky is going on in his life, to make him jealous and to give him something to yell about to you, a.k.a. “New Mom” – all of this is why he looks disinterested now that you’re being good to him.
Here’s another twist: he would rather we all not acknowledge this. He doesn’t want the boom mic or the camera cables slipping into frame, he doesn’t want anybody to see the strings on the puppet, especially you, but mostly him. He likes that he can feel turned on by his jealousy and also feel justified in punishing you, which also turns him on. Your performance is way better for him if you don’t realize it’s all a game and you feel your hurt and confusion genuinely, because it can help him to forget that it’s all a game. It’s all a game that he is selfishly refusing to let you in on.
Either he has a hate-boner for his mother, or he’s watched and/or read more drama than he’s actually managed to live yet. Is he an artist?
In trying to apply this idiotic formula to his life, he is forcing it on your life. It’s a pretty weak formula, it works for him because he’s a pretty weak person, and you should dump him! Wheeee.
Labels:
'jealousy',
affection,
breaking up,
gender relations,
health,
honesty,
mental health,
Mom,
relationships,
sex,
what's fair
Monday, March 2, 2009
Monday madness… yawn.
Boring: I’m pretty tired.
Exciting: I took a trip this weekend! It was really great.
Boring: It was also exhausting. And, upon returning to my home city, it took me two hours to get from the train station to my dwelling due to multiple malfunctions of public transit.
Exciting: I received several notes concerning Thursday’s and Friday’s letters.
First, my friend Mel, who is a mom, discusses her feelings on Nadya Suleman, she of many aliases and, uh, kids:
Oh man I am also slightly obsessed.
I feel if anyone is moved to death threats then all of their touching notes should be directed toward the Dr. who made this all possible. It was hugely irresponsible & dangerous for all involved. At least Octopussy was emotionally invested & perhaps unstable...what is his excuse?
So now we have 8 little babies who will almost definitely grow into 8 little kids with huge medical issues & then 8 adults who will still carry the effects of the Dr's irresponsibility.
They have to worry about infections, heart problems, eye problems, nervous system problems. They have increased rick of CP & autism. As a Dr. he should NEVER have done this.
I don't even know what to say about her. She is like the crazy cat lady of babies.
Snickers! Crazy cat lady! Yeah, apparently this guy has also fertilized another woman in the states, who is now pregnant with quadruplets or some such large brood. Like I said, I’m all for the procedure, I am not in the least bit freaked out by in-vitro and fertility treatments… as long as they’re safe. This business does not appear to be.
Then, I got lots of comment on the guy who wrote to vent a bit and solicit advice concerning his sex life with his girlfriend, whom he felt was not performing to her fullest capacity.
My pal S.B. was perhaps not as kind to our letter-writer as me, but her sentiment was generally the same – communication is important, and he likely could do with a lot more talking and listening:
To be honest, I think the problem is probably on both ends. Maybe the boy should try to be more receptive to the body language of his girl while they're getting it on. It's a matter of talking, but he should also ask himself if he's actually open to the communication HER body. It is about talking, but it's more about listening to the other.
Sex is a team effort. In order for it to be awesome, the players have to be in sync with each other, and to be in sync, you have to listen.
By the way, to the dude, did you even stop to think that the reason why she's not doing much is because YOU'RE doing a crappy job? Maybe you're too busy looking for your own pleasure in all this to be able to entice her into having a good time. These things don't just happen for girls.
My friend Johnny swung by again to give his two cents:
This is all good advice, except it seems to ignore the possibility the girl might just be a bad lay.
Let me be a bit more specific: she might be a bad lay for you. We're not all "one size fits all". Different people have different sexual chemistry, and it might just be that you two are incompatible.
By all means, take M's advice and talk to your girlfriend. I would suggest before sex you talk to her about what turns her on. Be open about what your turns are too! (And I'm not talking about major fetishes or anything, but things like "It'd be hot if you wore some sexy socks when I was fucking you", or "I like be fucked against a wall," etc.) Incorporating those little things into sex will make it hotter for both of you!
But if you're not getting anywhere with talking then dump her. Otherwise, you will seek satisfying sex elsewhere and end up hurting her more than a breakup talk ever would.
I did draw attention to the chemistry principle – people are different psychologically and sexually, which could explain some of the hitches you’ve been hitting so far. Maybe I didn’t make it clear enough that while time and increased familiarity can sometimes be the fix for a few of the situations, it’s definitely not a guarantee. Things can fail if you do manage to talk, too, but two good potential outcomes are: 1) expressing yourselves solves your problems and the relationship is saved and 2) you find out that all the talking in the world won’t make you soul mates and you quit wasting time with each other. I guess I figured the possibility of incompatibility was a given!
I don’t know if before sex is such a great idea -- that is, if you’re looking to have a frank talk. If you want to avoid having an earnest discussion on things, because you already have an idea of what you’d like your encounters to be like, by all means just go ahead and make suggestions just like Johnny uh, suggested, and put those suggestions into practice together real quick. But if you’re interested in getting at the why, I actually don’t think such a conversation should be a prelude to sex. You might require a calm atmosphere in a timeslot when you’re not doing much of anything else and when you’re feeling close to each other, I figure.
And Johnny is right: once it’s become apparent to you that it’s just not going to work, you need to follow through on that conclusion and make your classy exit. Sometimes dumping somebody can be the most stand-up, respectful thing you can do for them. A person who allows himself or herself to remain only partly invested in their partner is actually not giving their partner much regard at all.
And lastly, my buddy Richard McRichardson chimes in from afar:
He should definitely talk to her. But what if things don't work out? What if, after all of the conversation, explanation, and communication, things still aren't so steamy in the bedroom?
It might feel harsh to dump someone over bad sex, but let's face it: sex is a very important part of the vast majority of relationships. It's not "superficial" to value the physical aspects of your relationship along with the emotional ones and, frankly, bad sex could very well be worth dumping someone over. But let's not be hasty.
It's important that, along with all the communication, you give this time. Changes may not happen overnight, and she might have to adjust to your particular tastes in a number of ways. But if, at the end of the day, the sex is still bad, you're well within your rights to (politely!) call things off. Maybe she's a really cool person, and maybe the two of you can still be great friends, but trying to maintain an exclusive relationship with someone where the sex is disappointingly bad will just lead to disaster. One way or another she'll sense your dissatisfaction, which won't make her feel any better about things, and you'll probably either really regret missing out on all of the great sex you could be having in another relationship or, worse yet, cheat on her. Ending the relationship could very well be the honorable thing to do.
There is another option if the sex is still bad, if she's open to it, and that would be for the two of you to have an open relationship. That kind of arrangement is most certainly NOT for everyone, but if you really connect with this person emotionally and they can't fulfill your physical desires you might want to consider discussing the possibility of seeking physical pleasure with other partners. This is a last-ditch solution, and in all honesty it would probably be easier, safer, and more respectable to just end the relationship - introducing other partners to the mix partway through an exclusive relationship is FAR from easy - but that doesn't mean the possibility should be ignored entirely either.
Worth saying! Well put.
Richard is going to help me out with Tuesday’s letter. Ahem!
Tomorrow, a dude wants to know if his lack of butterflies and other associated stomach ailments is an indication that his long-distance relationship is going nowhere.
Exciting: I took a trip this weekend! It was really great.
Boring: It was also exhausting. And, upon returning to my home city, it took me two hours to get from the train station to my dwelling due to multiple malfunctions of public transit.
Exciting: I received several notes concerning Thursday’s and Friday’s letters.
First, my friend Mel, who is a mom, discusses her feelings on Nadya Suleman, she of many aliases and, uh, kids:
Oh man I am also slightly obsessed.
I feel if anyone is moved to death threats then all of their touching notes should be directed toward the Dr. who made this all possible. It was hugely irresponsible & dangerous for all involved. At least Octopussy was emotionally invested & perhaps unstable...what is his excuse?
So now we have 8 little babies who will almost definitely grow into 8 little kids with huge medical issues & then 8 adults who will still carry the effects of the Dr's irresponsibility.
They have to worry about infections, heart problems, eye problems, nervous system problems. They have increased rick of CP & autism. As a Dr. he should NEVER have done this.
I don't even know what to say about her. She is like the crazy cat lady of babies.
Snickers! Crazy cat lady! Yeah, apparently this guy has also fertilized another woman in the states, who is now pregnant with quadruplets or some such large brood. Like I said, I’m all for the procedure, I am not in the least bit freaked out by in-vitro and fertility treatments… as long as they’re safe. This business does not appear to be.
Then, I got lots of comment on the guy who wrote to vent a bit and solicit advice concerning his sex life with his girlfriend, whom he felt was not performing to her fullest capacity.
My pal S.B. was perhaps not as kind to our letter-writer as me, but her sentiment was generally the same – communication is important, and he likely could do with a lot more talking and listening:
To be honest, I think the problem is probably on both ends. Maybe the boy should try to be more receptive to the body language of his girl while they're getting it on. It's a matter of talking, but he should also ask himself if he's actually open to the communication HER body. It is about talking, but it's more about listening to the other.
Sex is a team effort. In order for it to be awesome, the players have to be in sync with each other, and to be in sync, you have to listen.
By the way, to the dude, did you even stop to think that the reason why she's not doing much is because YOU'RE doing a crappy job? Maybe you're too busy looking for your own pleasure in all this to be able to entice her into having a good time. These things don't just happen for girls.
My friend Johnny swung by again to give his two cents:
This is all good advice, except it seems to ignore the possibility the girl might just be a bad lay.
Let me be a bit more specific: she might be a bad lay for you. We're not all "one size fits all". Different people have different sexual chemistry, and it might just be that you two are incompatible.
By all means, take M's advice and talk to your girlfriend. I would suggest before sex you talk to her about what turns her on. Be open about what your turns are too! (And I'm not talking about major fetishes or anything, but things like "It'd be hot if you wore some sexy socks when I was fucking you", or "I like be fucked against a wall," etc.) Incorporating those little things into sex will make it hotter for both of you!
But if you're not getting anywhere with talking then dump her. Otherwise, you will seek satisfying sex elsewhere and end up hurting her more than a breakup talk ever would.
I did draw attention to the chemistry principle – people are different psychologically and sexually, which could explain some of the hitches you’ve been hitting so far. Maybe I didn’t make it clear enough that while time and increased familiarity can sometimes be the fix for a few of the situations, it’s definitely not a guarantee. Things can fail if you do manage to talk, too, but two good potential outcomes are: 1) expressing yourselves solves your problems and the relationship is saved and 2) you find out that all the talking in the world won’t make you soul mates and you quit wasting time with each other. I guess I figured the possibility of incompatibility was a given!
I don’t know if before sex is such a great idea -- that is, if you’re looking to have a frank talk. If you want to avoid having an earnest discussion on things, because you already have an idea of what you’d like your encounters to be like, by all means just go ahead and make suggestions just like Johnny uh, suggested, and put those suggestions into practice together real quick. But if you’re interested in getting at the why, I actually don’t think such a conversation should be a prelude to sex. You might require a calm atmosphere in a timeslot when you’re not doing much of anything else and when you’re feeling close to each other, I figure.
And Johnny is right: once it’s become apparent to you that it’s just not going to work, you need to follow through on that conclusion and make your classy exit. Sometimes dumping somebody can be the most stand-up, respectful thing you can do for them. A person who allows himself or herself to remain only partly invested in their partner is actually not giving their partner much regard at all.
And lastly, my buddy Richard McRichardson chimes in from afar:
He should definitely talk to her. But what if things don't work out? What if, after all of the conversation, explanation, and communication, things still aren't so steamy in the bedroom?
It might feel harsh to dump someone over bad sex, but let's face it: sex is a very important part of the vast majority of relationships. It's not "superficial" to value the physical aspects of your relationship along with the emotional ones and, frankly, bad sex could very well be worth dumping someone over. But let's not be hasty.
It's important that, along with all the communication, you give this time. Changes may not happen overnight, and she might have to adjust to your particular tastes in a number of ways. But if, at the end of the day, the sex is still bad, you're well within your rights to (politely!) call things off. Maybe she's a really cool person, and maybe the two of you can still be great friends, but trying to maintain an exclusive relationship with someone where the sex is disappointingly bad will just lead to disaster. One way or another she'll sense your dissatisfaction, which won't make her feel any better about things, and you'll probably either really regret missing out on all of the great sex you could be having in another relationship or, worse yet, cheat on her. Ending the relationship could very well be the honorable thing to do.
There is another option if the sex is still bad, if she's open to it, and that would be for the two of you to have an open relationship. That kind of arrangement is most certainly NOT for everyone, but if you really connect with this person emotionally and they can't fulfill your physical desires you might want to consider discussing the possibility of seeking physical pleasure with other partners. This is a last-ditch solution, and in all honesty it would probably be easier, safer, and more respectable to just end the relationship - introducing other partners to the mix partway through an exclusive relationship is FAR from easy - but that doesn't mean the possibility should be ignored entirely either.
Worth saying! Well put.
Richard is going to help me out with Tuesday’s letter. Ahem!
Tomorrow, a dude wants to know if his lack of butterflies and other associated stomach ailments is an indication that his long-distance relationship is going nowhere.
Labels:
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Friday, February 27, 2009
The lay-down let-down
I hate to sound like an insensitive jerk, but I’m starting to think my girl friend is a bad lay. We’ve been sexually active for about a month now, and so far she has not climaxed. She also doesn’t seem to know what to do when she gets on top. I know she’s not a virgin, and to be honest I’d heard that was a demon in the sack. Maybe she’s just been with inexperienced guys before, but I didn’t think so. I’d hate to dump her just for being bad at sex, but that’s how much it’s frustrating me. What do you think is wrong? What should I do?
Good Lord. There are really endless possibilities when it comes to what could be behind your girlfriend’s sexual conduct.
I’ll start with the most cut and dry: it might have something to do with the physical combination of your member and her plumbing. If it seems like she doesn’t know what to do when she gets on top, it could be because she’s being surprised and confused by a painful and/or uncomfortable and/or plainly strange sensation that she hasn't experienced with any of her other sexual partners. If her vagina is more on the shallow side and you have a longish penis (in comparison to her short passage), it might cause her some discomfort in the cervical area to be experiencing entry at such an angle. If her vagina tips at an angle or veers off to the side (these things weren’t designed by Frank Lloyd Wright, people), and you have a bit of a curve to you yourself in an opposing direction, that may also feel strangely to her. She may not realize that with you she needs to try a different type of motion than she’s used to using while on top, and maybe the whole situation will be remedied when she is more accustomed to your physique.
Now, possibly the most obvious possibility: Maybe she doesn’t feel all that comfortable with you. Not all women need to have your respect and devotion in order to use your body to make themselves feel good, just like it is with some men. But this one may need some semblance of security in order to become uninhibited enough to climax, let alone climb on top of you and give you a full view of her body at the mercy of motion and gravity. She may not be sure enough of her feelings for you and your feelings for her. Maybe she really likes you and is still nervous. Maybe you just like different things and she has to get more used to your habits and preferences. This potential situation may also be fixed with time and increased familiarity.
And now, here’s my customary stab at being psychic:
People change their sexual behaviour as their lives go on, sometimes whether they want to or not. What works for you at 15 will not necessarily work for you at 20, what works for you at 20 may not work for you at 25. Et cetera and so on. I don’t know what you heard from your, uh, friends, but maybe your girlfriend has started a ‘lay there and moan’ phase since the time she knew… them.
There’s no one reason why this happens. In this case, whether you meant to or not, you’ve inferred here that she has been promiscuous in the past, by kind of saying that she came with great recommendations. I know that when some women go through periods of feeling antagonized, they can become very passive about sex, craving contact and validation from another human being, but retreating into themselves for the duration of the actual act, because other people have been hurting them and they are afraid to feel anything remotely like humiliation or rejection. Maybe she gets that guys are talking about her. Maybe she perceived on some level that you’re expecting something of her based on some kind of reputation she’s built, or just had imposed upon her, and maybe she is fighting that by demanding that you do all the work. Maybe you need to examine the way you think of her, and consider the likelihood that you are unwittingly giving her the message that you are only valuing her for what you’ve heard she’s capable of.
In summary, the only thing that I am absolutely sure would help in all scenarios, including the three I just presented, is, you guessed it, yes, yes, TALKING.
How do you know she’s not climaxing? If you’ve talked about this at all, you’re on the right track, but maybe she’s not being as vocal about her orgasms as you’re expecting she would be, and that can be a problem, too.
And what are you like during sex? Are you being encouraging? Do you tell her she’s beautiful and make it audible that you’re having a good time? Or do you just lay there, soundless and expectant? It works both ways: sullen is rarely sexy to anybody.
And, another thing: if you feel like you know better what she should be doing on top, have you thought to just tell her?
I ALMOST FORGOT: the HOW. HOW do you talk to her. Well, nicely, for starters. This type of concern is often brought up in the heat of frustration. You really risk putting it off until you can't stand the situation any more, creating the perfect conditions for a volcanic eruption of stupid.
Don't try a point blank question like, 'what is wrong with you?' Bring it up casually, perhaps right after sex when you're laying around together, and ask her questions like, 'does it make you uncomfortable to be on top?' Or make an observation like, 'sometimes when we're having sex, you don't look like you're enjoying yourself,' and follow it up with, 'are you enjoying yourself?' And try thinking of it like something you may have control over, as opposed to some poor service you're getting from some kind of wait staff, and ask her, 'is there anything I can do differently?'
I’m glad you wrote, and I'm glad to respond, but you really need to talk to her, for the love of God.
Good Lord. There are really endless possibilities when it comes to what could be behind your girlfriend’s sexual conduct.
I’ll start with the most cut and dry: it might have something to do with the physical combination of your member and her plumbing. If it seems like she doesn’t know what to do when she gets on top, it could be because she’s being surprised and confused by a painful and/or uncomfortable and/or plainly strange sensation that she hasn't experienced with any of her other sexual partners. If her vagina is more on the shallow side and you have a longish penis (in comparison to her short passage), it might cause her some discomfort in the cervical area to be experiencing entry at such an angle. If her vagina tips at an angle or veers off to the side (these things weren’t designed by Frank Lloyd Wright, people), and you have a bit of a curve to you yourself in an opposing direction, that may also feel strangely to her. She may not realize that with you she needs to try a different type of motion than she’s used to using while on top, and maybe the whole situation will be remedied when she is more accustomed to your physique.
Now, possibly the most obvious possibility: Maybe she doesn’t feel all that comfortable with you. Not all women need to have your respect and devotion in order to use your body to make themselves feel good, just like it is with some men. But this one may need some semblance of security in order to become uninhibited enough to climax, let alone climb on top of you and give you a full view of her body at the mercy of motion and gravity. She may not be sure enough of her feelings for you and your feelings for her. Maybe she really likes you and is still nervous. Maybe you just like different things and she has to get more used to your habits and preferences. This potential situation may also be fixed with time and increased familiarity.
And now, here’s my customary stab at being psychic:
People change their sexual behaviour as their lives go on, sometimes whether they want to or not. What works for you at 15 will not necessarily work for you at 20, what works for you at 20 may not work for you at 25. Et cetera and so on. I don’t know what you heard from your, uh, friends, but maybe your girlfriend has started a ‘lay there and moan’ phase since the time she knew… them.
There’s no one reason why this happens. In this case, whether you meant to or not, you’ve inferred here that she has been promiscuous in the past, by kind of saying that she came with great recommendations. I know that when some women go through periods of feeling antagonized, they can become very passive about sex, craving contact and validation from another human being, but retreating into themselves for the duration of the actual act, because other people have been hurting them and they are afraid to feel anything remotely like humiliation or rejection. Maybe she gets that guys are talking about her. Maybe she perceived on some level that you’re expecting something of her based on some kind of reputation she’s built, or just had imposed upon her, and maybe she is fighting that by demanding that you do all the work. Maybe you need to examine the way you think of her, and consider the likelihood that you are unwittingly giving her the message that you are only valuing her for what you’ve heard she’s capable of.
In summary, the only thing that I am absolutely sure would help in all scenarios, including the three I just presented, is, you guessed it, yes, yes, TALKING.
How do you know she’s not climaxing? If you’ve talked about this at all, you’re on the right track, but maybe she’s not being as vocal about her orgasms as you’re expecting she would be, and that can be a problem, too.
And what are you like during sex? Are you being encouraging? Do you tell her she’s beautiful and make it audible that you’re having a good time? Or do you just lay there, soundless and expectant? It works both ways: sullen is rarely sexy to anybody.
And, another thing: if you feel like you know better what she should be doing on top, have you thought to just tell her?
I ALMOST FORGOT: the HOW. HOW do you talk to her. Well, nicely, for starters. This type of concern is often brought up in the heat of frustration. You really risk putting it off until you can't stand the situation any more, creating the perfect conditions for a volcanic eruption of stupid.
Don't try a point blank question like, 'what is wrong with you?' Bring it up casually, perhaps right after sex when you're laying around together, and ask her questions like, 'does it make you uncomfortable to be on top?' Or make an observation like, 'sometimes when we're having sex, you don't look like you're enjoying yourself,' and follow it up with, 'are you enjoying yourself?' And try thinking of it like something you may have control over, as opposed to some poor service you're getting from some kind of wait staff, and ask her, 'is there anything I can do differently?'
I’m glad you wrote, and I'm glad to respond, but you really need to talk to her, for the love of God.
Monday, February 23, 2009
Monday mail makes marvelous
Lots of people had stuff to say about Friday’s letter, on the girl who appears to be smitten with her gay roommate.
One articulate reader took time out of their busy schedule to share:
good luck with that.
How minimalist. In a way that kind of says it all. It’s an extremely sticky situation, and there is likely no perfect solution. I had to offer two potential options in my reply, emphasizing my love for the honesty angle. My gay friend Johnny wrote in to express his preference for the behaviour modification angle:
This line struck me as being very odd: "She likes sleeping in his bed, as opposed to her own."
Dude lets her sleep in his bed? With him?
Perhaps Hernando is in this mess because he likes the attention and enables it? God knows, he wouldn't be the first homo to do something dumb like that.
But setting aside that, I don't think I'd confront her about this as it will only serve to make her upset and paranoid and probably a lousy roommate at the same time.
I like the advice of cutting the strings. Part of the reason she's attracted to him is undoubtedly due to all the attention he gives her.
And, for heaven's sake, tell her to sleep in her own god damn bed.
You’re right, Johnny. I think I should have advised Hernando’s friend to advise him to be more reserved with Janice regardless of whether he decided to tell her how her attention had been making him feel. True, I did say he should have been able to be affectionate with his new, suddenly close female friend, but I should have said that's O.K. provided she was well-adjusted enough to not take it as something it wasn’t, and that does not seem to be Janice, so it follows that his friendliness does seem to have gotten him into trouble here. Live and learn, better late than never… etc.
So I modify my advice. Cut the apron strings a bit, maybe little by little, and see what happens. If nothing improves, I still strongly recommend talking to her, because you know he risks making her upset and paranoid and a lousy roommate if he changes his behaviour with her and she notices and is hurt and confused by that, too. If Hernando ‘confronts’ Janice (though I think that’s a really strong word for what should happen here), there’s a chance it’ll not go well, but there’s a chance she’ll realize how intense she’s being and ease up. It’s kind of an optimistic choice, I think; their friendship (not to mention home life), should it continue, would be more genuine and healthy and relaxed than if he just started avoiding her.
Neither solution is fail proof, and there’s going to be some discomfort no matter what. Sucks!
Somebody agrees an advice alteration was needed:
I think cutting the stings little by little is definitely a smarter choice, especially since she's his roommate and that complicated things quite a bit.
I really do think that Janice is just taking the loose rope Hernando gives her and now he realizes he gave her a bit too much and he's no longer comfortable with that.
I also think he should backtrack one step at the time: start doing things without her, take time away from home to breathe, stop telling her everything, etc.
Truth is, it's sort of like the overbearing friend you were talking about earlier. The fact that he hasn't pushed her away earlier is because a part of him needs or enjoys that closeness as well, so I think both of them are troubled in this and not just the slightly delusional Janice. It seems to me like both of them need the affection and stability. Just now, Hernando feels the need to peel himself away and fly on his own for a bit, and that's exactly what he should do, allthewhile communicating with Janice so she won't double her efforts to try to get closer while he's trying to pull away. Hernando needs to learn how to respect himself and how to communicate so that others respect him as well.
That could all be helpful to consider.
Somebody wrote in to criticize my assessment of Janice:
How can you say you know all this stuff about someone you don’t know? Maybe she’s just awkward. You can’t say for sure she’s in love with the guy.
Hey, sure, it’s definitely possible she just has no idea how to be a friend, if that’s what you mean by ‘awkward.’ I could totally see that. But you know, these blog entries get pretty long anyway without me trying to catch every single possibility for a situation. And, the meat of my advice -- for Hernando to talk to her and/or cool down his involvement a bit -- would work in the situation that you pose, too.
You know, if nobody felt the freedom to make calls in situations concerning people they don’t know, the advice column, as a model, could not be sustained. I DO NOT WANT TO LIVE IN THAT WORLD.
Tune in Tuesday for my thoughts on the dynamic between ex-girlfriends and now-girlfriends, as one girl struggles to not send her ex and his chick mind bullets every time she sees them.
One articulate reader took time out of their busy schedule to share:
good luck with that.
How minimalist. In a way that kind of says it all. It’s an extremely sticky situation, and there is likely no perfect solution. I had to offer two potential options in my reply, emphasizing my love for the honesty angle. My gay friend Johnny wrote in to express his preference for the behaviour modification angle:
This line struck me as being very odd: "She likes sleeping in his bed, as opposed to her own."
Dude lets her sleep in his bed? With him?
Perhaps Hernando is in this mess because he likes the attention and enables it? God knows, he wouldn't be the first homo to do something dumb like that.
But setting aside that, I don't think I'd confront her about this as it will only serve to make her upset and paranoid and probably a lousy roommate at the same time.
I like the advice of cutting the strings. Part of the reason she's attracted to him is undoubtedly due to all the attention he gives her.
And, for heaven's sake, tell her to sleep in her own god damn bed.
You’re right, Johnny. I think I should have advised Hernando’s friend to advise him to be more reserved with Janice regardless of whether he decided to tell her how her attention had been making him feel. True, I did say he should have been able to be affectionate with his new, suddenly close female friend, but I should have said that's O.K. provided she was well-adjusted enough to not take it as something it wasn’t, and that does not seem to be Janice, so it follows that his friendliness does seem to have gotten him into trouble here. Live and learn, better late than never… etc.
So I modify my advice. Cut the apron strings a bit, maybe little by little, and see what happens. If nothing improves, I still strongly recommend talking to her, because you know he risks making her upset and paranoid and a lousy roommate if he changes his behaviour with her and she notices and is hurt and confused by that, too. If Hernando ‘confronts’ Janice (though I think that’s a really strong word for what should happen here), there’s a chance it’ll not go well, but there’s a chance she’ll realize how intense she’s being and ease up. It’s kind of an optimistic choice, I think; their friendship (not to mention home life), should it continue, would be more genuine and healthy and relaxed than if he just started avoiding her.
Neither solution is fail proof, and there’s going to be some discomfort no matter what. Sucks!
Somebody agrees an advice alteration was needed:
I think cutting the stings little by little is definitely a smarter choice, especially since she's his roommate and that complicated things quite a bit.
I really do think that Janice is just taking the loose rope Hernando gives her and now he realizes he gave her a bit too much and he's no longer comfortable with that.
I also think he should backtrack one step at the time: start doing things without her, take time away from home to breathe, stop telling her everything, etc.
Truth is, it's sort of like the overbearing friend you were talking about earlier. The fact that he hasn't pushed her away earlier is because a part of him needs or enjoys that closeness as well, so I think both of them are troubled in this and not just the slightly delusional Janice. It seems to me like both of them need the affection and stability. Just now, Hernando feels the need to peel himself away and fly on his own for a bit, and that's exactly what he should do, allthewhile communicating with Janice so she won't double her efforts to try to get closer while he's trying to pull away. Hernando needs to learn how to respect himself and how to communicate so that others respect him as well.
That could all be helpful to consider.
Somebody wrote in to criticize my assessment of Janice:
How can you say you know all this stuff about someone you don’t know? Maybe she’s just awkward. You can’t say for sure she’s in love with the guy.
Hey, sure, it’s definitely possible she just has no idea how to be a friend, if that’s what you mean by ‘awkward.’ I could totally see that. But you know, these blog entries get pretty long anyway without me trying to catch every single possibility for a situation. And, the meat of my advice -- for Hernando to talk to her and/or cool down his involvement a bit -- would work in the situation that you pose, too.
You know, if nobody felt the freedom to make calls in situations concerning people they don’t know, the advice column, as a model, could not be sustained. I DO NOT WANT TO LIVE IN THAT WORLD.
Tune in Tuesday for my thoughts on the dynamic between ex-girlfriends and now-girlfriends, as one girl struggles to not send her ex and his chick mind bullets every time she sees them.
Labels:
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Friday, February 20, 2009
Barking up the gay tree
Dear They Said What?,
Yay! Not another (romantic) relationship question! Here's my issue: My best friend just moved in with a girl. In keeping with using fake names to protect privacy, I'll call him Hernando and her Janice. Our close knit group of friends only really started hanging out with Janice a few months ago, and she and Hernando really hit it off. Although we all found her to be kind of annoying, they did seem to have a lot of fun together, and it could be fun partying with them. When they announced they were moving in together though, that is when everyone really started to worry. See, Janice seems to be madly in love with Hernando. And Hernando is openly gay.
Janice talks about Hernando constantly when they are apart. She raves about him and never expresses any interest in hanging out with anyone else. On his part, I know that he liked the attention at first, especially since the rest of our group had an autumn full of schoolwork and late shifts, and weren't really able to party all the time, which is what she loves to do. At the start of it all, he thought maybe we were being jealous, because she wanted to occupy all his time, but really, he works hard to make sure that all his friends know how much he cares for us, so that was never an issue.
What is an issue is that we all pretty much think she is delusional, and think that she sees their friendship and roommatehood as having the potential for much much more. It has gotten to the point were even Hernando (since moving in with her for financial reasons) has even told me "I don't know what to do, I think she actually might have feelings for me" to which I of course replied "Well, yeah. I told you that." She keeps constant tabs on him, always wanting to know where he is and who he is with. She likes sleeping in his bed, as opposed to her own. She buys him presents all the time, and makes plans for the long-distant future as though really planning a life with him. Hernando told me that once when they were both drunk, she propositioned him, and then pretended it was just a joke. To top it all off, one day as Janice was telling me "I need a boyfriend. It is just so hard, living with this beautiful man, and he's just so amazing, and I need to get laid!" and I said, "Janice, don't fall in love with Hernando, okay?" and she said "What?... Oh my god, I know. Why would you say that... wait, has he said anything?" in a very lady-doth-protest-too-much sort of way.
I feel like this is getting really long, so I will try to wrap up. Basically, since moving in with this girl, Hernando has finally become creeped out by her behaviour enough to ask me for advice, but I am just no good at giving advice. He doesn't want to hurt her feelings, but she does know that he has no romantic interest in women, and he doesn't know what else he can tell her. He can't move out because they have a lease, and he still wants to be her friend of course. As his friend, I don't like to see him in this situation mainly because it has the potential to get really awkward. So, um, any thoughts?
We say things all the time for the sake of sensitivity. They're often truthful, but they also don't risk hurting anybody's feelings. There have been many a drunken Saturday night when I've been all too happy to utter the words, 'I have a boyfriend' to some physically unappealing or otherwise offensive man or woman. Hernando has: 'I'm gay.' With options like these, the trick is often done without having to call attention to what is underlying in these scenarios: a lack of attraction. The hit-on-er is left thinking, 'she/he isn't able,' and they move on without having to acknowledge the that the hit-on-ee's answer ALSO likely means he or she is not willing, either.
In Janice's head, the problem is 'just' Hernando’s homosexuality. She seems to have mentally reduced it to the single thing standing in the way of her happiness with someone she really likes and gets along with, so really she needs to come to see it in terms of utter lack of attraction in order to get it. We, along with Janice, risk forgetting that this business here with Hernando is equal to any other unwanted sexual advance.
Why might Janice need this extra dose of reality? Not all hags are alike, but at least some of the heterosexual ones are hungry for love, and some of that subset are into gays because straights aren't into them. They seek validation from those whom they may see as non-threatening eunuchs, because they don’t actually understand homosexuality. Sure, they don’t live in a vacuum, they’ve been told that some men love men like other men love women, and they know that men manage to have sex with each other somehow, but the whole thing has not been actualized to them. They are accepting of homosexuality in an unthinking way. They like gay men, but they don’t actually get what they do, beyond, ‘hey, I like boys, too.’ Deep down they might even believe a gay boy may just need the right woman to come along. Shudder with me: Ugh!
Unwittingly, some of the cuddlier homos oblige them; gay men would be well within their rights to think that they can be as verbally and physically affectionate as they like with their willing female friends because they don’t risk sending mixed messages; their proclaimed orientation should speak for itself. But hormonally, when a friendship with a gay man turns a certain shade of warm, women like Janice embark on a simulated romantic relationship. Companionship, light physical contact -- sometimes intermediate physical affection if you're dealing with some of the Ted Homosexuals I've rubbed up against in my day – from someone who, let's face it, probably works out, with no sexual tension or heartbreak. Friendship is the romance that never has to end. Right?
As we see here in the case of Janice and Hernando, oh Hell no. The sexual tension kicks in real good and one-sided, and in the words of The Marvelettes: Danger, Heartbreak Dead Ahead. "If only he wasn't gay."
Here's a question for you and H-man to ponder: how has he dealt with the fact that he's gay? I am by no means suggesting that this is his fault for not looking gay enough. But perhaps a key to understanding lonely Janice's delusion lies in what she may be able give her brain to fantasize/scheme with. How recently openly gay is he? Is he out to his family? Did he try out bisexuality as a label before warming up to public homosexuality? Has he had girlfriends? Is he dating men now? Is he bringing any boys home? I gather from your mention of school and partying that you guys are kind of young. Maybe Janice, in her naïve, kind of disrespectful internalization of gayness, doesn’t believe Hernando, who may just still be learning to be comfortable with himself, is walking the walk enough.
If that’s what she’s thinking, she hasn’t got a right. People are gay or straight in their own ways, and Hernando shouldn’t feel pressure to conduct himself in a way he wouldn’t usually, and especially not in his own home. It’s not an excuse for her behaviour, but it’s a reason, and maybe that can give you guys some insight as to how to proceed.
Unfortunately, I am not completely certain about how to communicate lack of attraction to someone without risking an air of the confrontational in this scenario, in which reality would be a clear enough indication of what is reasonable behaviour for most people. If he’s not comfortable about leveling with her yet, things obviously haven’t gotten weird enough. Trust me, that’ll happen. I would actually put money on my suspicion that it has happened and attachments like these form a pattern in Janice’s life. You guys may have only been hanging out with her a few months, but she didn’t come out of nowhere, and you have to wonder what she did with her time before you and Hernando came along.
Hernando can’t live like this, and he certainly can’t let it get worse, for his sake and for Janice’s. If he really doesn’t want to beat her over the head with how much he does not want to do the sex with her because he cares about her, and doesn’t want to hurt her feelings, and wants to keep her friendship, tell him to think of it this way: Friends don’t let friends make themselves ridiculous and miserable. If Janice is his friend, she is his friend who has a problem, and he does her no favours by pretending everything is fine. To make it known, in a caring and genuine way, that she is making him uncomfortable, and to try to talk to her about why she is so very, very inappropriately focusing her energy on him, is to be a true friend.
If she doesn’t respond well to this -- and a poor response encompasses everything between disproportionate anger to groveling, disproportionate repentance. Huge reactions are sometimes ploys to take the focus off of the situation at hand and make the other party feel bad -- her problem may not be one that Hernando is equipped to help her iron out, especially if she’s not willing to confront it herself, and especially if my pattern theory is true. Sometimes you have to quietly break a lease and let crazy sort itself out.
If all of that is still not an option for him, he could just try cutting the apron strings a bit. Start making it a point to not divulge everything about his life to her, start consciously making plans that do not include her… does his bedroom door have a lock on it?
Readers, you can chime in at any time. I'll post your advice on Monday!
Yay! Not another (romantic) relationship question! Here's my issue: My best friend just moved in with a girl. In keeping with using fake names to protect privacy, I'll call him Hernando and her Janice. Our close knit group of friends only really started hanging out with Janice a few months ago, and she and Hernando really hit it off. Although we all found her to be kind of annoying, they did seem to have a lot of fun together, and it could be fun partying with them. When they announced they were moving in together though, that is when everyone really started to worry. See, Janice seems to be madly in love with Hernando. And Hernando is openly gay.
Janice talks about Hernando constantly when they are apart. She raves about him and never expresses any interest in hanging out with anyone else. On his part, I know that he liked the attention at first, especially since the rest of our group had an autumn full of schoolwork and late shifts, and weren't really able to party all the time, which is what she loves to do. At the start of it all, he thought maybe we were being jealous, because she wanted to occupy all his time, but really, he works hard to make sure that all his friends know how much he cares for us, so that was never an issue.
What is an issue is that we all pretty much think she is delusional, and think that she sees their friendship and roommatehood as having the potential for much much more. It has gotten to the point were even Hernando (since moving in with her for financial reasons) has even told me "I don't know what to do, I think she actually might have feelings for me" to which I of course replied "Well, yeah. I told you that." She keeps constant tabs on him, always wanting to know where he is and who he is with. She likes sleeping in his bed, as opposed to her own. She buys him presents all the time, and makes plans for the long-distant future as though really planning a life with him. Hernando told me that once when they were both drunk, she propositioned him, and then pretended it was just a joke. To top it all off, one day as Janice was telling me "I need a boyfriend. It is just so hard, living with this beautiful man, and he's just so amazing, and I need to get laid!" and I said, "Janice, don't fall in love with Hernando, okay?" and she said "What?... Oh my god, I know. Why would you say that... wait, has he said anything?" in a very lady-doth-protest-too-much sort of way.
I feel like this is getting really long, so I will try to wrap up. Basically, since moving in with this girl, Hernando has finally become creeped out by her behaviour enough to ask me for advice, but I am just no good at giving advice. He doesn't want to hurt her feelings, but she does know that he has no romantic interest in women, and he doesn't know what else he can tell her. He can't move out because they have a lease, and he still wants to be her friend of course. As his friend, I don't like to see him in this situation mainly because it has the potential to get really awkward. So, um, any thoughts?
We say things all the time for the sake of sensitivity. They're often truthful, but they also don't risk hurting anybody's feelings. There have been many a drunken Saturday night when I've been all too happy to utter the words, 'I have a boyfriend' to some physically unappealing or otherwise offensive man or woman. Hernando has: 'I'm gay.' With options like these, the trick is often done without having to call attention to what is underlying in these scenarios: a lack of attraction. The hit-on-er is left thinking, 'she/he isn't able,' and they move on without having to acknowledge the that the hit-on-ee's answer ALSO likely means he or she is not willing, either.
In Janice's head, the problem is 'just' Hernando’s homosexuality. She seems to have mentally reduced it to the single thing standing in the way of her happiness with someone she really likes and gets along with, so really she needs to come to see it in terms of utter lack of attraction in order to get it. We, along with Janice, risk forgetting that this business here with Hernando is equal to any other unwanted sexual advance.
Why might Janice need this extra dose of reality? Not all hags are alike, but at least some of the heterosexual ones are hungry for love, and some of that subset are into gays because straights aren't into them. They seek validation from those whom they may see as non-threatening eunuchs, because they don’t actually understand homosexuality. Sure, they don’t live in a vacuum, they’ve been told that some men love men like other men love women, and they know that men manage to have sex with each other somehow, but the whole thing has not been actualized to them. They are accepting of homosexuality in an unthinking way. They like gay men, but they don’t actually get what they do, beyond, ‘hey, I like boys, too.’ Deep down they might even believe a gay boy may just need the right woman to come along. Shudder with me: Ugh!
Unwittingly, some of the cuddlier homos oblige them; gay men would be well within their rights to think that they can be as verbally and physically affectionate as they like with their willing female friends because they don’t risk sending mixed messages; their proclaimed orientation should speak for itself. But hormonally, when a friendship with a gay man turns a certain shade of warm, women like Janice embark on a simulated romantic relationship. Companionship, light physical contact -- sometimes intermediate physical affection if you're dealing with some of the Ted Homosexuals I've rubbed up against in my day – from someone who, let's face it, probably works out, with no sexual tension or heartbreak. Friendship is the romance that never has to end. Right?
As we see here in the case of Janice and Hernando, oh Hell no. The sexual tension kicks in real good and one-sided, and in the words of The Marvelettes: Danger, Heartbreak Dead Ahead. "If only he wasn't gay."
Here's a question for you and H-man to ponder: how has he dealt with the fact that he's gay? I am by no means suggesting that this is his fault for not looking gay enough. But perhaps a key to understanding lonely Janice's delusion lies in what she may be able give her brain to fantasize/scheme with. How recently openly gay is he? Is he out to his family? Did he try out bisexuality as a label before warming up to public homosexuality? Has he had girlfriends? Is he dating men now? Is he bringing any boys home? I gather from your mention of school and partying that you guys are kind of young. Maybe Janice, in her naïve, kind of disrespectful internalization of gayness, doesn’t believe Hernando, who may just still be learning to be comfortable with himself, is walking the walk enough.
If that’s what she’s thinking, she hasn’t got a right. People are gay or straight in their own ways, and Hernando shouldn’t feel pressure to conduct himself in a way he wouldn’t usually, and especially not in his own home. It’s not an excuse for her behaviour, but it’s a reason, and maybe that can give you guys some insight as to how to proceed.
Unfortunately, I am not completely certain about how to communicate lack of attraction to someone without risking an air of the confrontational in this scenario, in which reality would be a clear enough indication of what is reasonable behaviour for most people. If he’s not comfortable about leveling with her yet, things obviously haven’t gotten weird enough. Trust me, that’ll happen. I would actually put money on my suspicion that it has happened and attachments like these form a pattern in Janice’s life. You guys may have only been hanging out with her a few months, but she didn’t come out of nowhere, and you have to wonder what she did with her time before you and Hernando came along.
Hernando can’t live like this, and he certainly can’t let it get worse, for his sake and for Janice’s. If he really doesn’t want to beat her over the head with how much he does not want to do the sex with her because he cares about her, and doesn’t want to hurt her feelings, and wants to keep her friendship, tell him to think of it this way: Friends don’t let friends make themselves ridiculous and miserable. If Janice is his friend, she is his friend who has a problem, and he does her no favours by pretending everything is fine. To make it known, in a caring and genuine way, that she is making him uncomfortable, and to try to talk to her about why she is so very, very inappropriately focusing her energy on him, is to be a true friend.
If she doesn’t respond well to this -- and a poor response encompasses everything between disproportionate anger to groveling, disproportionate repentance. Huge reactions are sometimes ploys to take the focus off of the situation at hand and make the other party feel bad -- her problem may not be one that Hernando is equipped to help her iron out, especially if she’s not willing to confront it herself, and especially if my pattern theory is true. Sometimes you have to quietly break a lease and let crazy sort itself out.
If all of that is still not an option for him, he could just try cutting the apron strings a bit. Start making it a point to not divulge everything about his life to her, start consciously making plans that do not include her… does his bedroom door have a lock on it?
Readers, you can chime in at any time. I'll post your advice on Monday!
Labels:
affection,
appropriate?,
friendship,
gender relations,
he's gay,
honesty,
mental health,
rejection,
roommates
Wednesday, February 11, 2009
I wanna be your dog
So I open up your blog and the first submission I see is about rules. No offense to the person who submitted it because I was wondering the same thing. But why are women so freaking obsessed with rules? I'm not surprised there is a book but do you think guys will actually read this shit? Not likely. Do you know what most guys do in their spare time? Something that we understand. Take hockey for example, I know what determines an offside, a penalty or a goal because its pretty well defined. When it comes to women, not so much. I only find out the rules when I break them and suffer the emotional wrath built up by all of the men who have wronged her before me (and her friends and Julia Roberts).
So how about some constructive criticism? Should I talk to women on buses or other forms of public transportation (subway, trains, airplanes)? Are drinking establishments the only places to meet women? Yoga classes sure as hell don't work. Honestly, texting doesn't fucking count as talking to me, because its just another way to avoid honesty and face to face conversation. If you cancel a date then call me on the telephone. Remember what phones use to be for? The last girl I was seeing broke up with me by email, how cool is that? I didn't have Facebook at the time so she couldn't use that I guess. What about a girl who invites me twice to her birthday party (greaser guy/pin-up doll theme) and then I go downtown looking like a sleazy Elvis and it turns out that plans changed slightly and people didn't dress up. Do you know why dogs are man's best friend, because women aren't reliable and we can communicate with dogs a hell of a lot easier and we totally get their body language. Its simple, direct and increases in urgency with time
So my point is let me in on all of these rules or give me some positive feedback...I'm only human and I don't even own a dog.
I called my mother long-distance and read your letter to her, because, like me, she enjoys a good tirade.
“RIGHT on,” she half-shouted. I heard my Dad grunt in the way he does when she startles him. “Women need to be honest and stop expecting men to guess what they’re thinking. You know those Brontë girls?”
“Charlotte, Anne and Emily,” I volunteered.
“Yeah, and that Jane Austen. Their books are good books, but women love books from that time because they miss the point, the whole social commentary thing, and they think it was such a romantic way to live in the 18th and 19th century with all the ceremony and the- I don’t think none of that is romantic.”
“No?”
“NO. The men pursued the women, and the women got married if they made the right moves in the game and got the men to make the right moves in the game, and after the wedding their lives were over. Those people didn’t die happy, don’t tell me they did.”
It’s been a while since my mother read any Jane Austen, but I think her take on the social structure of that time and any fascination people still have with it is really interesting. She feels that when people focus on rules too much, they lose sight of the end goal of the courting game – happiness with a companion – and focus instead on… points. Points for looks, points for wealth, points for social connections, points for just doing or saying the right thing at the right time. And then people end up together and they wonder why.
While she only makes generalizations when she’s keyed up about something on the telephone, Mother does suspect that women are more likely to participate in this nigglingly analytic and somewhat sadistic behaviour than men. Not because it comes naturally to them, but because she thinks it’s one of those negative gender stereotypes that some people revel in perpetuating.
People of either sex are capable of being catty, two-faced, vain, superficial, feather-brained and high-strung. Unfortunately, these traits are often thought of as female clichés, and a good deal of the people who think of them as female clichés are actually females who will actually luxuriate in this weak shit as if its part of being proudly feminine. Those females need to sit down and shut up.
BUT YOU KNOW, people of either sex are capable of being slovenly, sports-analogy-obsessed, insensitive, bullish, boorish, crude and willfully simple-minded, but those are often thought of as male clichés, and a lot of men seem to get off on displaying those behaviours and thinking how great they are at being guys.
Besides thinking you had a great point, Mom also thought you sounded a tad on the hypocritical side. We’re not saying that you’re all these bad things – we don’t even know you, and no matter what you’re really like, we both agree the girls in your anecdotes have not been giving you a fair shake; an e-mail breakup? Those coming from both women and men make me ashamed to be a human being.
But why complain that all women are alike (cruel, confusing), when you seem to represent yourself as the typical guy? By making these divisions between men and women and by perpetuating the stereotype of the impatient, woman-confounded man, you might be part of the problem. Maybe you’re even attracting classic female crazy because you’re giving off classic male mystified. That might just be something to think about.
What can you do, though, in the meantime? Pointers, eh? It’s going to depend on what you’re looking for. I’m not sure what that is, but I’ll do my best.
People always say ‘be yourself,’ and we often think it’s because they want us to have good self-esteem and not get stuck in weird teen-sitcom-like personas. I think you need to bear in mind that if you’re not yourself, you actually risk looking dishonest, untrustworthy, mildly evil, or worst of all, desperate.
You must know that some women feel weird about being out and out hit on by strangers, because it’s hard to look and sound genuine when you are feeding somebody a line. They might be thinking stuff like, ‘Who are you? What are you trying to get out of me?’ and they might get the urge to mangle your ego and crush your soul because how dare you come sniffin’ ‘round here ya betta MIIIIIIIIIND YO BUSINESS- (ahem).
Not all of us are so distrustful, and not all of us are looking for something all that pure, but you can’t always tell what anybody is looking for at first sight – this is not women being complicated, this is women being diverse, just as men are diverse. And so, a man who is actually good at flirting doesn’t necessarily know a lot of clever things to say or all the right places to go.
Basically, he’s a genuine guy who knows he can get by by just communicating what is on his mind: thinking that he'd like to kiss a girl and then smiling at her as if he'd like to kiss her, because he knows, as a genuine guy, he can’t make a woman feel manipulated or preyed upon by acting how he's feeling, and that's good because she might not be into being manipulated or preyed upon.
And buddy: if you find that feeling what you're feeling and letting it show on your face and in your actions isn’t working for you, then maybe you need to take a good hard look at what’s on your mind. Maybe women can tell that you just want a dog.
And everybody: call your mother.
So how about some constructive criticism? Should I talk to women on buses or other forms of public transportation (subway, trains, airplanes)? Are drinking establishments the only places to meet women? Yoga classes sure as hell don't work. Honestly, texting doesn't fucking count as talking to me, because its just another way to avoid honesty and face to face conversation. If you cancel a date then call me on the telephone. Remember what phones use to be for? The last girl I was seeing broke up with me by email, how cool is that? I didn't have Facebook at the time so she couldn't use that I guess. What about a girl who invites me twice to her birthday party (greaser guy/pin-up doll theme) and then I go downtown looking like a sleazy Elvis and it turns out that plans changed slightly and people didn't dress up. Do you know why dogs are man's best friend, because women aren't reliable and we can communicate with dogs a hell of a lot easier and we totally get their body language. Its simple, direct and increases in urgency with time
So my point is let me in on all of these rules or give me some positive feedback...I'm only human and I don't even own a dog.
I called my mother long-distance and read your letter to her, because, like me, she enjoys a good tirade.
“RIGHT on,” she half-shouted. I heard my Dad grunt in the way he does when she startles him. “Women need to be honest and stop expecting men to guess what they’re thinking. You know those Brontë girls?”
“Charlotte, Anne and Emily,” I volunteered.
“Yeah, and that Jane Austen. Their books are good books, but women love books from that time because they miss the point, the whole social commentary thing, and they think it was such a romantic way to live in the 18th and 19th century with all the ceremony and the- I don’t think none of that is romantic.”
“No?”
“NO. The men pursued the women, and the women got married if they made the right moves in the game and got the men to make the right moves in the game, and after the wedding their lives were over. Those people didn’t die happy, don’t tell me they did.”
It’s been a while since my mother read any Jane Austen, but I think her take on the social structure of that time and any fascination people still have with it is really interesting. She feels that when people focus on rules too much, they lose sight of the end goal of the courting game – happiness with a companion – and focus instead on… points. Points for looks, points for wealth, points for social connections, points for just doing or saying the right thing at the right time. And then people end up together and they wonder why.
While she only makes generalizations when she’s keyed up about something on the telephone, Mother does suspect that women are more likely to participate in this nigglingly analytic and somewhat sadistic behaviour than men. Not because it comes naturally to them, but because she thinks it’s one of those negative gender stereotypes that some people revel in perpetuating.
People of either sex are capable of being catty, two-faced, vain, superficial, feather-brained and high-strung. Unfortunately, these traits are often thought of as female clichés, and a good deal of the people who think of them as female clichés are actually females who will actually luxuriate in this weak shit as if its part of being proudly feminine. Those females need to sit down and shut up.
BUT YOU KNOW, people of either sex are capable of being slovenly, sports-analogy-obsessed, insensitive, bullish, boorish, crude and willfully simple-minded, but those are often thought of as male clichés, and a lot of men seem to get off on displaying those behaviours and thinking how great they are at being guys.
Besides thinking you had a great point, Mom also thought you sounded a tad on the hypocritical side. We’re not saying that you’re all these bad things – we don’t even know you, and no matter what you’re really like, we both agree the girls in your anecdotes have not been giving you a fair shake; an e-mail breakup? Those coming from both women and men make me ashamed to be a human being.
But why complain that all women are alike (cruel, confusing), when you seem to represent yourself as the typical guy? By making these divisions between men and women and by perpetuating the stereotype of the impatient, woman-confounded man, you might be part of the problem. Maybe you’re even attracting classic female crazy because you’re giving off classic male mystified. That might just be something to think about.
What can you do, though, in the meantime? Pointers, eh? It’s going to depend on what you’re looking for. I’m not sure what that is, but I’ll do my best.
People always say ‘be yourself,’ and we often think it’s because they want us to have good self-esteem and not get stuck in weird teen-sitcom-like personas. I think you need to bear in mind that if you’re not yourself, you actually risk looking dishonest, untrustworthy, mildly evil, or worst of all, desperate.
You must know that some women feel weird about being out and out hit on by strangers, because it’s hard to look and sound genuine when you are feeding somebody a line. They might be thinking stuff like, ‘Who are you? What are you trying to get out of me?’ and they might get the urge to mangle your ego and crush your soul because how dare you come sniffin’ ‘round here ya betta MIIIIIIIIIND YO BUSINESS- (ahem).
Not all of us are so distrustful, and not all of us are looking for something all that pure, but you can’t always tell what anybody is looking for at first sight – this is not women being complicated, this is women being diverse, just as men are diverse. And so, a man who is actually good at flirting doesn’t necessarily know a lot of clever things to say or all the right places to go.
Basically, he’s a genuine guy who knows he can get by by just communicating what is on his mind: thinking that he'd like to kiss a girl and then smiling at her as if he'd like to kiss her, because he knows, as a genuine guy, he can’t make a woman feel manipulated or preyed upon by acting how he's feeling, and that's good because she might not be into being manipulated or preyed upon.
And buddy: if you find that feeling what you're feeling and letting it show on your face and in your actions isn’t working for you, then maybe you need to take a good hard look at what’s on your mind. Maybe women can tell that you just want a dog.
And everybody: call your mother.
Monday, February 9, 2009
Guest columnists!
Oh hey! I’ve heard from some people who want to lend their $0.02 to what we discussed last week here at TSW. I say: wicked.
First, we have someone weighing in on Thursday’s child, who was having some difficulty with his girlfriend’s online conduct, or rather, the online conduct of others towards her and her handling of it:
I would have to say that the girl I am currently seeing is by far one of the most beautiful women on this planet. She gets a lot of attention whenever we go out and online, especially on her Face Book. I, too, have to read through plenty of off-kilter, uncalled for, disrespectful and perverted comments directed at her on her Face Book (some of them from boys proclaiming their love!), and it does stir up a lot of bad feelings. The jealousy comes from the fact that she is not saying "Hey man, back off" and just lets these assholes objectify her without thinking how it might make me feel, and the anger comes from some douche bag who doesn't respect me, her, or our relationship which, thanks to FB statuses, is very much public.
I would suggest asking her nicely to tell these dead beats to... uhh... beat it. Let her know how much it bothers you, especially on a public forum where it can make you look like the push-over. Or do what I do; acknowledge that that shit is going on and make a similar wall post to shut him up. What can I say, I'm a vindictive dude! I have only been with my girl for about 2 months, but it is really intense and if it means talking to her about it or dissing some "bro" on her wall in public to save the relationship, I say then so be it!
*Shrug* Well put, stranger! It’s a slightly more confrontational approach, but at the core I agree: he’s more than O.K. to say something about it. You also raise a good point, and I don’t know if I had made this clear: these things can put a strain on the dynamic between a couple. I don’t know if it’s a matter of saving the relationship, but it’s better to act (rationally!) than to let resentment well up inside of you.
On Friday, somebody wrote in with some timely questions concerning the latest relationship philosophy phenomenon, He’s Just Not That Into You, namely: Do I really wait for the guy I like to approach me, and how can I show him I’m interested?
One lady kind of disagreed with me… I think:
If a guy really likes you, he WILL ask you out. NO MATTER WHAT.
If a guy might like you, but thinks you won't go out with him and therefore doesn't pursue you...that is because he is letting his own negative self esteem TRUMP his feelings for you and his ability to ask you out. Of course, it doesn't mean that he's "not that into you" but it DOES mean that "he's not that into you" if he has to risk actually asking you out. I know this probably doesn't make sense because you are thinking "but if he likes me, and i like him, then we should go out!" but the thing is that we, as females, go through the same thing...but if we REALLY REALLY REALLY liked a guy...we would let them know. and it is not a big deal to us. (or maybe it is, but we get over it and ask them out.)
If a guy isn't willing to do the same, then he's not THAT into you. He's into you...but not THAT into you. If a guy were really into you the way he SHOULD BE INTO YOU, then he would ask you because life would not be worth living if he didn't have the chance to get to know you better.
Furthermore, guys pursue girls that don't like them and are VERY CLEAR that they don't like them all the time....and guys never get the hint! Conversely, girls always pursue guys that don't really like them....they read into every little act and gesture and then ascribe a heightened sense or meaning to it that isn't really there... For example: "OMG, he sat next to me in class, he's GOT to like me!!!" "Actually...he sat next to you because it was the last open seat in class....wake up?!"
All I'm saying is that a guy doesn't need to know you're into him to ask you out. He will ask you out because he likes you PERIOD. After all, we aren't in junior high anymore. People don't go around telling other people "Hey....So-and-So likes you so you should ask them out." We all know how those relationships worked....they lasted for what?? A day? Maybe 2 weeks at the most....
I’m sorry if it came across like I was encouraging our letter writer to get her friends to set her up with her crush like it’s recess at Degrassi in 1987. By asking if she and he had mutual friends, I just meant that if they did, it’s an indication of how close they are socially and how much time she’s already spending with him. When you’re hanging out with the same people, it’s a start!
But know what I remember about junior high? Everybody tended to become absolutely smitten with others while actually understanding or even knowing very little about them as people. When it became apparent that you liked someone, if they liked you back, you were boyfriend and girlfriend. There was absolutely no building action. It was a simple time.
But it wasn’t a great time. You were up and down, hot and cold. Nobody really thought much about romance, but nobody was the least bit casual about it either. Thank God for adulthood, when dating became about testing the waters and just seeing how you felt and opening your heart to possibilities you wouldn’t have considered when you were a Backstreet Boys fan.
Thank God we learned that feelings can grow over time and that we don’t have to wait for someone we REALLY, REALLY-REALLY are THAT into to come along before we, you know, imbibe (don't lead people on when you know they aren't it for you, or when you know they want something very serious immediately and you're not ready, but otherwise give them a whirl is all I'm saying).
And thank God it’s not necessarily a waste of time to see someone you’re not obsessed with, because that someone might surprise us.
Thank God that we don’t have to lament if a person isn’t as taken with us as we are with them, because maybe the case is they just don’t know you well enough yet.
Thank God it’s a two-way street, too, and men can be just as open as women, and women can be just as proactive as men. Isn’t it great to be an adult?
What you say definitely makes lots of sense; I'm not sure we're disagreeing so much as you're just fleshing out what the book says. I already understood: if someone really REALLY likes somebody, like a LOT, they won’t let their shyness get in the way of something they really KNOW will make them happy.
… Probably. I mean, I could see it.
But while perfectly good men who end up miserable (either alone, or with the wrong person) because they never get the courage to approach anybody they were REALLY, TRULY, VERY MUCH into, are not the norm, they do exist. And I think we can give human beings too much credit – a lot of people, some of them man-people, are pretty passive and easy-going, and just are never that certain about anybody, or even come to consider anybody, until that anybody says, in the words of Abba, “take a chance on me.” Maybe that’s not attractive to some women, maybe that’s not enough for you, maybe you want somebody who will feel very strongly about you from the beginning, but some of us are, I don’t know, disillusioned?
It’s true, and I didn’t think to make the aside: some guys don’t necessarily need to be encouraged. Some really don’t take a hint! But you know that kind of conviction is not something that can happen to every person concerning a person they aren’t already seeing. And, I’ll just put it out there: the likelihood of a man or woman feeling that type of unrelenting conviction increases if they’re mentally unbalanced. Just because Ol’ Crazy will chase the pants off you doesn’t mean Big Sexy will.
I got another reply to this letter:
So, writing as a man, I'd like to say that the book you're talking about is horseshit.
Okay, maybe that's being a bit presumptuous. I haven't read the book, but after seeing what was here I did a wee bit of research. The authors of this book are people who work on (awful) television shows and comedy routines, so I'm not sure why we should be taking them as authorities on the male psyche to begin with, but I digress. Everything I've seen suggests that the book implies a farcical overgeneralization of all men: we think in simple yes/no dichotomies and our only mating strategy is to pursue a woman at all times, at all costs. If it's not clear by my tone already: this is blatantly false.
Men can be every bit as complicated as women when it comes to how we think about relationships. We often have just as many emotional hangups and anxieties when it comes to this sort of thing as women do. And I suppose that's what bothers me the most: As M. aptly notes, this book upholds outdated gender stereotypes which, most of the time, only serve to fuck up our relationship problems even further.
And then another guy summed up:
I have a real problem with "love manuals" or what have you that try and tell us how EVERY SINGLE MAN/WOMAN behaves. Everybody is different and shows their love in different ways, and everybody wants to be treated different kinds of ways.
That pretty much hits the nail on the head, for me. Like I said on Friday, you have to make some allowances for the fact that there are different types of people.
If our letter-writer wants to let the dude be the one to make a move, I did support that. Like I said, the book does have a good point, that philosophy about the guy coming to the girl may stand a good chance of being right, statistically. But I do think that if she wants to try to increase her chances or be proactive, if it’s right for her, she can be a little aggressive, even if it’s just something as simple as making herself more familiar and visible. Her own intuition and style seems to be telling her that there are some aspects of a book (which she found useful, otherwise) she can’t really get behind, and I think, all things considered, she might as well go with that.
First, we have someone weighing in on Thursday’s child, who was having some difficulty with his girlfriend’s online conduct, or rather, the online conduct of others towards her and her handling of it:
I would have to say that the girl I am currently seeing is by far one of the most beautiful women on this planet. She gets a lot of attention whenever we go out and online, especially on her Face Book. I, too, have to read through plenty of off-kilter, uncalled for, disrespectful and perverted comments directed at her on her Face Book (some of them from boys proclaiming their love!), and it does stir up a lot of bad feelings. The jealousy comes from the fact that she is not saying "Hey man, back off" and just lets these assholes objectify her without thinking how it might make me feel, and the anger comes from some douche bag who doesn't respect me, her, or our relationship which, thanks to FB statuses, is very much public.
I would suggest asking her nicely to tell these dead beats to... uhh... beat it. Let her know how much it bothers you, especially on a public forum where it can make you look like the push-over. Or do what I do; acknowledge that that shit is going on and make a similar wall post to shut him up. What can I say, I'm a vindictive dude! I have only been with my girl for about 2 months, but it is really intense and if it means talking to her about it or dissing some "bro" on her wall in public to save the relationship, I say then so be it!
*Shrug* Well put, stranger! It’s a slightly more confrontational approach, but at the core I agree: he’s more than O.K. to say something about it. You also raise a good point, and I don’t know if I had made this clear: these things can put a strain on the dynamic between a couple. I don’t know if it’s a matter of saving the relationship, but it’s better to act (rationally!) than to let resentment well up inside of you.
On Friday, somebody wrote in with some timely questions concerning the latest relationship philosophy phenomenon, He’s Just Not That Into You, namely: Do I really wait for the guy I like to approach me, and how can I show him I’m interested?
One lady kind of disagreed with me… I think:
If a guy really likes you, he WILL ask you out. NO MATTER WHAT.
If a guy might like you, but thinks you won't go out with him and therefore doesn't pursue you...that is because he is letting his own negative self esteem TRUMP his feelings for you and his ability to ask you out. Of course, it doesn't mean that he's "not that into you" but it DOES mean that "he's not that into you" if he has to risk actually asking you out. I know this probably doesn't make sense because you are thinking "but if he likes me, and i like him, then we should go out!" but the thing is that we, as females, go through the same thing...but if we REALLY REALLY REALLY liked a guy...we would let them know. and it is not a big deal to us. (or maybe it is, but we get over it and ask them out.)
If a guy isn't willing to do the same, then he's not THAT into you. He's into you...but not THAT into you. If a guy were really into you the way he SHOULD BE INTO YOU, then he would ask you because life would not be worth living if he didn't have the chance to get to know you better.
Furthermore, guys pursue girls that don't like them and are VERY CLEAR that they don't like them all the time....and guys never get the hint! Conversely, girls always pursue guys that don't really like them....they read into every little act and gesture and then ascribe a heightened sense or meaning to it that isn't really there... For example: "OMG, he sat next to me in class, he's GOT to like me!!!" "Actually...he sat next to you because it was the last open seat in class....wake up?!"
All I'm saying is that a guy doesn't need to know you're into him to ask you out. He will ask you out because he likes you PERIOD. After all, we aren't in junior high anymore. People don't go around telling other people "Hey....So-and-So likes you so you should ask them out." We all know how those relationships worked....they lasted for what?? A day? Maybe 2 weeks at the most....
I’m sorry if it came across like I was encouraging our letter writer to get her friends to set her up with her crush like it’s recess at Degrassi in 1987. By asking if she and he had mutual friends, I just meant that if they did, it’s an indication of how close they are socially and how much time she’s already spending with him. When you’re hanging out with the same people, it’s a start!
But know what I remember about junior high? Everybody tended to become absolutely smitten with others while actually understanding or even knowing very little about them as people. When it became apparent that you liked someone, if they liked you back, you were boyfriend and girlfriend. There was absolutely no building action. It was a simple time.
But it wasn’t a great time. You were up and down, hot and cold. Nobody really thought much about romance, but nobody was the least bit casual about it either. Thank God for adulthood, when dating became about testing the waters and just seeing how you felt and opening your heart to possibilities you wouldn’t have considered when you were a Backstreet Boys fan.
Thank God we learned that feelings can grow over time and that we don’t have to wait for someone we REALLY, REALLY-REALLY are THAT into to come along before we, you know, imbibe (don't lead people on when you know they aren't it for you, or when you know they want something very serious immediately and you're not ready, but otherwise give them a whirl is all I'm saying).
And thank God it’s not necessarily a waste of time to see someone you’re not obsessed with, because that someone might surprise us.
Thank God that we don’t have to lament if a person isn’t as taken with us as we are with them, because maybe the case is they just don’t know you well enough yet.
Thank God it’s a two-way street, too, and men can be just as open as women, and women can be just as proactive as men. Isn’t it great to be an adult?
What you say definitely makes lots of sense; I'm not sure we're disagreeing so much as you're just fleshing out what the book says. I already understood: if someone really REALLY likes somebody, like a LOT, they won’t let their shyness get in the way of something they really KNOW will make them happy.
… Probably. I mean, I could see it.
But while perfectly good men who end up miserable (either alone, or with the wrong person) because they never get the courage to approach anybody they were REALLY, TRULY, VERY MUCH into, are not the norm, they do exist. And I think we can give human beings too much credit – a lot of people, some of them man-people, are pretty passive and easy-going, and just are never that certain about anybody, or even come to consider anybody, until that anybody says, in the words of Abba, “take a chance on me.” Maybe that’s not attractive to some women, maybe that’s not enough for you, maybe you want somebody who will feel very strongly about you from the beginning, but some of us are, I don’t know, disillusioned?
It’s true, and I didn’t think to make the aside: some guys don’t necessarily need to be encouraged. Some really don’t take a hint! But you know that kind of conviction is not something that can happen to every person concerning a person they aren’t already seeing. And, I’ll just put it out there: the likelihood of a man or woman feeling that type of unrelenting conviction increases if they’re mentally unbalanced. Just because Ol’ Crazy will chase the pants off you doesn’t mean Big Sexy will.
I got another reply to this letter:
So, writing as a man, I'd like to say that the book you're talking about is horseshit.
Okay, maybe that's being a bit presumptuous. I haven't read the book, but after seeing what was here I did a wee bit of research. The authors of this book are people who work on (awful) television shows and comedy routines, so I'm not sure why we should be taking them as authorities on the male psyche to begin with, but I digress. Everything I've seen suggests that the book implies a farcical overgeneralization of all men: we think in simple yes/no dichotomies and our only mating strategy is to pursue a woman at all times, at all costs. If it's not clear by my tone already: this is blatantly false.
Men can be every bit as complicated as women when it comes to how we think about relationships. We often have just as many emotional hangups and anxieties when it comes to this sort of thing as women do. And I suppose that's what bothers me the most: As M. aptly notes, this book upholds outdated gender stereotypes which, most of the time, only serve to fuck up our relationship problems even further.
And then another guy summed up:
I have a real problem with "love manuals" or what have you that try and tell us how EVERY SINGLE MAN/WOMAN behaves. Everybody is different and shows their love in different ways, and everybody wants to be treated different kinds of ways.
That pretty much hits the nail on the head, for me. Like I said on Friday, you have to make some allowances for the fact that there are different types of people.
If our letter-writer wants to let the dude be the one to make a move, I did support that. Like I said, the book does have a good point, that philosophy about the guy coming to the girl may stand a good chance of being right, statistically. But I do think that if she wants to try to increase her chances or be proactive, if it’s right for her, she can be a little aggressive, even if it’s just something as simple as making herself more familiar and visible. Her own intuition and style seems to be telling her that there are some aspects of a book (which she found useful, otherwise) she can’t really get behind, and I think, all things considered, she might as well go with that.
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Friday, February 6, 2009
She's Just Not That Into Waiting For You
Do you believe the whole. "He's just not that into you?" Sure, when he's not calling, or blowing you off a bunch for his friends or doesn't call when he says he will, i get it. he's probably not that into you and we make excuses for people all the time. I was in the relationship of this kind and wish i had the book then.
I have a hard time believing that when they say (in the book), "If a guy really likes you, he will ask you out. No matter what."
That's fine and all, but how do you let a guy know that you are even interested? The book says that if he likes me, he will ask me out. Do I wait forever for this guy to work up the courage to ask me out or should i let him know i'm into him?And if so, how do i go about doing this?
The books idea is, if he's not asking you out, he's probably just not that into you. Do I move on?
Help!
Sometime after He’s Just Not That Into You came out in book form, I was somewhere on the more positive side of indifferent about it. I skimmed it at the bookstore and noted the realistic tone and the message that you detail in your first paragraph, there, about how not calling and blow-offs equal disinterest. 'NICE, RIGHT ON,' I thought, and then sauntered off for an appointment with a guy I would confront and then break up with a little while later, after I’d forgotten about the book, for, you know, not calling and blowing me off.
But you know what? It turns out he wasn’t actually disinterested. He was just jerking me around because he thought if he looked disinterested, it would make me all the more interested. Too bad that that works sometimes, eh? Some women find nothing more attractive than a man who pays her absolutely no mind and some men know the Hell out of that one and try to base some moves on it. Does the book raise that possibility? No calls + avoidance = disinterested OR passive-aggressive? Not that you’d want passive-aggressive either; Regardless of the reasons it may or may not cite, HJNTIY encourages us to avoid wasting ourselves on people who don’t call and don’t try to see us, and that’s probably good enough. I’d say, call on that behaviour once, but not twice if you can help it and definitely not three times.
So while the book can be helpful (that is, if you’re not the type of lady who will actually just get sick of that treatment and cut him loose, no questions asked), maybe it can’t have everything right, as you seem to have detected. Case in point, this whole asking-out business.
As a straight woman, I like being asked out by men, but I am mega uncomfortable with the idea that I risk being turned down more often when I do the same because if a man was actually attracted to me he would have approached me already. I think this concept reinforces some negative things about traditional gender roles. It encourages men to be forward, it encourages women to be passive, and cute timid men and sexy confident women are just… wrong?
True, some men are like what the book says (though I suspect more men were like that in, uh, the ‘50s). But you’ve got to leave room for the boy who goes after what he wants, but takes a while to realize what that is. And for the boy who seems outgoing and go-getting but is kind of a baby about other things – a man can fear rejection just as much as a woman can, thanks. And for the boy who would make a great companion if he could only make eye contact with you.
So I'm all for the confrontational 'LET'S DATE' from women to men, but it doesn't seemlike you are there yet. How to proceed?
Let's assume for the sake of direction that he's just not considering you. Yet. Because I wouldn't encourage you to pursue someone who clearly has no interest in you, and just in case he isn't secretly in love with you.
Too many people get discouraged because the person they have a crush on doesn't magically feel exactly the same way about them. If he's not considering you yet, it's possible to win him over. Think about the following: What is your connection to him? Where is he in your life? Do you have regular contact? Do you have any mutual friends? Use your answers to these questions to determine how you can become more familiar. Say hi. Smile. Make conversation, even if you have to sit down and think for a while about things you could talk about (don't overthink it, but it never hurts to be prepared). Organize group things you may invite him to as a platonic friend (that means no pressure on either of you) so he can see what you're like with others and so you can just be with him more often. The more you see each other, the more organically things can happen. Maybe you'll reach a point where he'll make a move. Maybe you'll get comfortable enough to make a move.
And if he won’t cooperate, let him go and be as unattainable to you as he pleases. You might be better off.
I have a hard time believing that when they say (in the book), "If a guy really likes you, he will ask you out. No matter what."
That's fine and all, but how do you let a guy know that you are even interested? The book says that if he likes me, he will ask me out. Do I wait forever for this guy to work up the courage to ask me out or should i let him know i'm into him?And if so, how do i go about doing this?
The books idea is, if he's not asking you out, he's probably just not that into you. Do I move on?
Help!
Sometime after He’s Just Not That Into You came out in book form, I was somewhere on the more positive side of indifferent about it. I skimmed it at the bookstore and noted the realistic tone and the message that you detail in your first paragraph, there, about how not calling and blow-offs equal disinterest. 'NICE, RIGHT ON,' I thought, and then sauntered off for an appointment with a guy I would confront and then break up with a little while later, after I’d forgotten about the book, for, you know, not calling and blowing me off.
But you know what? It turns out he wasn’t actually disinterested. He was just jerking me around because he thought if he looked disinterested, it would make me all the more interested. Too bad that that works sometimes, eh? Some women find nothing more attractive than a man who pays her absolutely no mind and some men know the Hell out of that one and try to base some moves on it. Does the book raise that possibility? No calls + avoidance = disinterested OR passive-aggressive? Not that you’d want passive-aggressive either; Regardless of the reasons it may or may not cite, HJNTIY encourages us to avoid wasting ourselves on people who don’t call and don’t try to see us, and that’s probably good enough. I’d say, call on that behaviour once, but not twice if you can help it and definitely not three times.
So while the book can be helpful (that is, if you’re not the type of lady who will actually just get sick of that treatment and cut him loose, no questions asked), maybe it can’t have everything right, as you seem to have detected. Case in point, this whole asking-out business.
As a straight woman, I like being asked out by men, but I am mega uncomfortable with the idea that I risk being turned down more often when I do the same because if a man was actually attracted to me he would have approached me already. I think this concept reinforces some negative things about traditional gender roles. It encourages men to be forward, it encourages women to be passive, and cute timid men and sexy confident women are just… wrong?
True, some men are like what the book says (though I suspect more men were like that in, uh, the ‘50s). But you’ve got to leave room for the boy who goes after what he wants, but takes a while to realize what that is. And for the boy who seems outgoing and go-getting but is kind of a baby about other things – a man can fear rejection just as much as a woman can, thanks. And for the boy who would make a great companion if he could only make eye contact with you.
So I'm all for the confrontational 'LET'S DATE' from women to men, but it doesn't seemlike you are there yet. How to proceed?
Let's assume for the sake of direction that he's just not considering you. Yet. Because I wouldn't encourage you to pursue someone who clearly has no interest in you, and just in case he isn't secretly in love with you.
Too many people get discouraged because the person they have a crush on doesn't magically feel exactly the same way about them. If he's not considering you yet, it's possible to win him over. Think about the following: What is your connection to him? Where is he in your life? Do you have regular contact? Do you have any mutual friends? Use your answers to these questions to determine how you can become more familiar. Say hi. Smile. Make conversation, even if you have to sit down and think for a while about things you could talk about (don't overthink it, but it never hurts to be prepared). Organize group things you may invite him to as a platonic friend (that means no pressure on either of you) so he can see what you're like with others and so you can just be with him more often. The more you see each other, the more organically things can happen. Maybe you'll reach a point where he'll make a move. Maybe you'll get comfortable enough to make a move.
And if he won’t cooperate, let him go and be as unattainable to you as he pleases. You might be better off.
Labels:
dating,
gender relations,
HJNTIY,
rejection,
relationships
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